Worthwhile Feedback on Fight. Racism.

CT: ‎"I thought I was making the distinction between a whore, someone who doesn't mind being talked to like that, and a woman who has the right not to be aggressively sexualized." Are there women who don't have the right not to be aggressively sexualized in everyday conversation? Do women who sell sex give up their rights?

UT:Sounds like a pretty awful conversation all around. Can't help but get sticky when dealing with a society where race and class are so incredibly intertwined, and feminist ideology is so foreign, that making a perfectly reasonable feminist declaration of boundaries would be seen as a class/race distinction that highlights your outsider role, and makes you look elitist, as though you consider yourself above 'normal' male-female relations by virtue of your whiteness as well as your wealth, because that is the context they have for someone refusing to accept being treated as a sex object, even though they are undoubtedly by and large inured to rejection of advances from the women in their own community. In this case, rather than shooting them down from within their existing context for male-female relationships, it looks more like you've made an attack on their cultural identity, creating a degree of cognitive dissonance that's almost bound to result in social exclusion, angry men not listening to your point of view at all and all that.

I hate to say it, but in terms of maintaining trust and respect with the locals, you'd probably be better off making claims as to your own chastity, calling them on going too far, but avoiding taking it to a place of principle, even if that principle can be taken as a given here in the US, unless of course you're interested in having these sorts of conversations again. Without the cultural context and background, I'd bet feminism is a tough sell, to men anyway, and very likely to lead to these sorts of misunderstandings. Even among the poor here in the US, it's by and large a different world for women. Not defending their sexism, just pointing out the weakness of your position regarding actually changing or even opening their minds on the subject. If that's really important to you, maybe there are ways to go about it, but I don't know. Maybe I'm going on inadequate information: I'm not really sure what sort of culture you're involved with in terms of feminist progress, but it seems likely to be the case, from what you've written.

In that vein, how is the spread of feminist ideology accomplished in other nations? How can common ground be found with the men of more patriarchal societies so that meaningful dialogue can be built? Is it possible if there isn't much pressure being exerted by an already active women's movement, or does cultural resistance to an existing movement impede open discussion? Might be worth some study. And in regards to your project, what space does feminism occupy in Haiti? Is there any meaningful cultural understanding of the principles? What's normal for sexual relationships in that culture?

Anyway, sorry you had a rough one. Love the updates, though, really interesting stuff.

CP: @CT: you are absolutely right, and this was brought to my attention by someone else already. Every woman has the right to sexual respect, but there are some women (regardless of profession, I wasn't thinking literally when I used the word whore, although if I am assuming a feminist standpoint I really should be more careful) who chose not to assert it or don't feel like they are in a position to assert it.

@UM: first of all, thank you for taking the time to be interested in my ramblings, and for your serious and thoughtful feedback. There were so many assumptions on my part that in the moment I didn't recognize as such. I love your comment about men being inured to rejection from women in their own community, that is pretty spot on. I really didn't have to go on principles, I think that was certainly one of the first wires I tripped over. For the reasons you clearly articulate, I didn't have to make such a big deal about being heard. Ultimately it didn't matter, and the ideologies I was speaking from mean nothing here. I should have dropped it, or gone about it a totally different way. From what I can tell, feminism is a bit of a bad word, with associations to homosexuality (very bad here) and efforts to widen the abyss between Haitian men and women I have seen few signs of a self-conscious women's movement here, although I did meet with an group that organizes emotional and legal support for female victims of sexual violence. I asked the spokeswoman if she considered it a feminist group, and she recoiled from the word. But there is also a government ministry for the condition of women (not clear what that means) that supposedly addresses issues of sexual discrimination. Relations between men and women don't seem particularly 'progressive' (more than one person has used terms like "archaic" or "middle-ages" when describing sexual dynamics, but many people say stuff like that to describe Haitian society in general). Some of the younger generation I have talked to though say that they have very different expectations from their elders, so maybe in the next twenty years or so that will pan out into cultural change. But in the mean time, lots of accepted male polygamy and girls aspiring to be mothers when they grow up.